As part of the Rubinstein 20\21 project, Dimitri Ozerkov met with Ilya Kabakov's wife and co-author, Emilia Kabakova, who came to St. Petersburg before the opening of a large retrospective exhibition at The State Hermitage Museum. During the discussion, Emilia explained how the Winter Palace is better than the Tretyakov gallery and how to evaluate the works of contemporary art according to Kabakov's recipe. Good art, according to the artist, this is not when you go into the hall with the artwork and think "wow" and go out with the thoughts "and so what?" and when, contrary, first you look and thinking " and so what?", and you leave and you think - " wow!".